Why You Should NOT buy Anything from Thermador

UPDATE:  What started as a post about my stove repair woes has turned into the most popular thread on this site by far.  It gets comments multiple times per day and features a whole host of people telling similar horror stories about service and repair from Thermador.  I can only hope this thread provides pause to anyone considering buying one of their appliances.  Also, make sure to check out pretty much every comment from SvcMgr, an ex-manager at Thermador who sheds some light on the company's shady practices and how to get your complaints escalated.

Our stove issue has since been fixed, but let this repair horror story along with the many other stories in the comments serve as a warning to anyone looking to spend thousands of dollars on a "luxury" appliance from Thermador. 

As the regular blog readers know, we've been having issues with our stove ever since we moved in and the issue is still not resolved. We still cannot use either of the ovens. I'm starting to think this thing is just a 617 pound, $9000 lemon. I documented the entire saga for the site Consumerist and thought I would put it up here as well, so everyone was informed. Here's what I sent them:

I thought I would share my horrific customer service experience with high end kitchen manufacturer Thermador with you.   I am currently undergoing major home renovations and redesigned my entire kitchen.  During my research I saw the Thermador stoves got the highest performance ratings so I opted for their 48" dual fuel double oven range with grill and griddle.  This thing is as big and as expensive as a small car.  I dropped $9000 on what I thought was going to be the greatest range ever.  I was sorely disappointed with the appliance and even more disappointed with the attitude from this well renowned American company that promises exquisite performance and service.

I purchased the range at PC Richards in Queens, NY back in mid-February of this year.  While they offered their extended warranty, I knew that the range came with a one year manufacturer's warranty and mistakenly thought that would be sufficient. The stove was delivered, set in place and inspected in late February, but it sat there for almost a month until the proper dedicated power line could be run by our electrician.  In mid March we moved into our new home and tested out our new range with great results.  I cooked with it for exactly four days and was very happy with the results.  Then on the 5^th day, the day of our housewarming party, guest arrived, I turned on the ovens to start warming up the food and the thing would turn on for about 5 seconds and just shut itself off.  We tried over and over again with the same results.  This effectively ruined my housewarming party.  So it goes. 

Originally we though the issue might have been with the power line, but after our electrician reviewed the setup, confirmed the power line capacity was within the manufacturer's specification, so at that point it appeared the issue was with the range itself.  I called Thermador on April 2^nd and they set up a service date with me for April 5^th.  I took that day off from work to be available and on the 5^th a technician came out, examined the stove briefly and determined that one of the main circuit boards had fried and needed replacing—he told me this was a very common occurrence with these models and that sometimes the units were just trashed and replaced instead of replacing just the circuit board.  We sat on hold with Thermador for over 30 minutes so he could get an estimate on how long it would take to order the part, but he couldn't get through.  He joked that even as an employee he always had a hard time getting someone on the phone.  He told me he would call back later that day with the information, and he did.  He left me a voicemail telling me that part was ordered and that it was delayed a week so he would come back on 4/16 to swap it out. 

I took 4/16 off from work as well and about mid-day I got a call from Thermador telling me that the part was delayed and the technician would not be coming out that day.  I was very upset and told them I had taken the day off already and wished someone could have given me more notice.  The women I spoke to, Jennifer apologized and offered to extend my warranty from one to two years. She also told me she would call back by the end of the day to give me an ETA on that part.  That day came and went without any contact so I called back on 4/17 and after sitting on hold for over 30 minutes I was told that there was still no information from the factory on when the part would be available.  I was told I would get a call back that day, but again it never came. 

I called back again on 4/18 and spoke to a women who continually put me on hold and then came back after another 20 minutes or so and said, quote "the part should be in stock in a couple of weeks or so, we'll call you and let you know"  I explained to here, again, that my stove was completely unusable, had been for almost a month and that I needed an ETA on when it would be fixed or else I wanted the whole thing replaced ASAP.  She told me she couldn't give me an ETA, so I asked for her name and her supervisor.  She put me back on hold and then 5 minutes later I was disconnected. 

I called back into and was on hold another 20 minutes before speaking with Gary.  I calmly explained the whole story to him, reiterating that the stove was unusable, had been for almost a month and that I needed an ETA on when it would be fixed.  He repeatedly told me he could give me no ETA since they couldn't get the right part from their factory.  Again, I asked to speak to a supervisor and was told that a supervisor wouldn't tell me anything different.  I explained that I was willing to wait longer but that I couldn't wait indefinitely and that I needed a concrete date as to when my stove would either be fixed or completely replaced.  I was told by Gary that if I wanted the stove replaced that I would need to contact the store where I bought it.  When I explained that I did not purchase a service plan with PC Richards and reiterated the fact that the stove stopped working days after it's install (indicating a manufacturing problem) he again told me a supervisor wouldn't help me.  I insisted on speaking to one, was put on hold for another five minutes and then told that there was no supervisor available and that I should call back tomorrow.  I requested that a supervisor call me back as their hold time to get to a human is always upwards of 20 minutes.  Gary obliged, but I wasn't very optimistic.  After about an hour Gary called me back and said no supervisor would be able to call me that day and that I should call back again the next day.  When I expressed, yet again, that all I wanted was an ETA on when the part would be in, he informed me that they should have a solid ETA by Friday and that I should call back then for an update.   

I called back on the morning of Friday 4/20 and after another 20 minutes on hold I spoke with Delia and explained the entire saga to her.  She put me on hold for two minutes to check with their shipping department and came back to tell me that they still we trying to locate the part and that there was no firm ETA.  When I again expressed my displeasure about the lack of communicate or a solid action plan to get me a working stove, she told me rather snippily that I needed to give them more time to locate the correct part.  I confirmed with here that Thermador does indeed make the part so that if they couldn't find one that they could manufacture a new one for me.  She affirmed this but gave me the same "we have no ETA" answer when I asked her how long it would take them to fabricate the part.  I told her that felt her company had not provided service commensurate with the purchase of a $9000 luxury appliance purchased just 2 months ago, installed just five weeks ago and operational for just 4 days of that time.  She apologized and told me they would replace the stove completely if they could not get the part.  I asked her at what point in the process they would move to the second option and again she said she couldn't give me a concrete answer.  She told me someone from the parts department would call me back later that day.  So far, no callback from them.    

So right now I have a 617 pound, $9000 piece of junk in my kitchen that I can't even warm up a pizza in, much less create the culinary masterpieces that Thermador promises are possible for cooking enthusiasts who purchase their products.  Their customer service has been abysmal, the callbacks nonexistent and I'm really unsure as to how to proceed as I keep on getting the same lame run around from these guys.  Any advice?

Comments

[Kathy]

I think Bill from Enon Hall also had problems with a Thermador double wall oven - a cosmetic prolem. The ovens were replaced and the replacements were as bad. It might be time for a temper tantrum at PC Richards.

[modernemama]

No advice, only sympathy. We had exactly the same run around from Sub-Zero in 2004 with an ice dispenser that wouldn't or couldn't dispense ice.
It took 10 weeks, innumerable phone calls to the store, the distributor and Sub-Zero head office, three visits from the technician and two replacement parts before it was fixed.
What made me mad was they knew when they marketed this model that it had a problem but they sold it anyway. I'm sure there's a law about knowingly selling defective goods?
I told them I was going to detail my experiences on my web-site, email them to everyone I knew and to consumer magazines. I was extremely frustrated that they wouldn't just haul the thing away and give me my money back. They extended the warranty by an extra two years but the whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth.

[JP]

Lawyer up.

[Ryan H]

I would try and call above the customer service.
The VP of Sales for BSH (Termadoor, Bosch)is Scot Brown.
It looks like he is in CA.
5551 McFadden Ave.
Huntington Beach, CA 92649 United States (Map)

Phone: 714-901-6600
Fax: 714-901-5980

Good luck.

[vivienne]

First off I would opt for a brand new stove not a repair. 9k is more of a life commitment than an appliance, and Thermador should feel married to you by now. So I would say, no repair in 24 hours or no replacement in one week the relationship is over and you should go for a full refund.

Try call them four, five times in a day for "updates." I suggest that the pain of a broken foot can make one very forgetful of who called whom about what.

If passive aggressive phone calls don't appeal then amazingly, writing to the Better Business Bureau often works. It
worked for me with a particularly annoying long distance phone company.

Or band up with other bloggers with problems like this http://www.oscartrelles.com/archives/pc_richard_sucks_repairing_stuff

If all else fails then show up at PC Richards in a wheelchair with as old and ornery a person as you can get pushing you, and start as talking very very loudly in the showroom about your 9k marvel should get their attention.

Good luck.

[DHL]

I'm having issues with my Thermador 48" pro all gas range. We moved in to a new construction 3/1/07 and the oven never worked it fired up for 5 seconds then flashed error codes. So a tech came on 3/23/07 and said it was a computer and fan. They finally came to replace the fan and computer on 5/3/07 because the fan was on back order that whole time. Now the problem is that I have to play with the knobs for it to get above 150 degrees and even then it is about 75 degrees off from actual. I called and they are coming back again on 5/11/07. I'll update the progress...

[~dana]

Hey thanks all for the support! After weeks upon weeks of me calling every single day, sometimes multiple times per day, they finally got the part in and came out. After waiting all day Friday for the technician (I had a 10-2 appointment) he called and said he would be a little late. He didn't wind up showing up until close to 6:30 and left at around 9:30 but all seems well. I haven't had a chance to do any fancy cooking yet, but all seems to be working so far. I just hope this doesn't happen again any time soon.

DHL--any update on your issues?

[DHL]

Yes, update... We tested the oven through out that week before the scheduled appointment and decided that the oven was working to our satisfaction so we cancelled the appointment. The oven took a long time to preheat, but the trick was to set the temperature about 25 to 50 above what we actually want the temperature and it will hit the correct temp within 20 minutes and then crank the knob back down to the actual temperature. Also we read on the internet that these new big pro ovens take longer to warm up to prevent the porcelain from cracking because these suckers can heat up to quickly.

[~dana]

good to hear DHL--yes, mine takes a while to heat up as well and the small oven has no thermometer, so I bought one to make sure it's getting to the right temperature.

So it appears that Thermador will eventually fix issues with their ovens but it takes months and months to get a final resolution. While I'm happy it worked out in the end I can't help but think that for the price we are paying that we should be getting much better and much FASTER service.

[DHL]

No kidding on the faster service part. I think if I bought a Kenmore for $300.00 I would get faster service then paying many thousands for a Thermador. I would suggest you get an oven thermometer for the large oven as well. They advise that the thermometer on the outside is for general reference only and is not a true gauge of what the temp inside is.

[Shirley Tomlin]

I have a Thermador gas range with grill. Due to weird circumstances, the insulation has to be replaced. The parts have been on order for several weeks --- the stove is at the repair store, so I have no stove at all! The tech's at the repair store told me that replacing the insulation is unusual and that was the problem. After reading these comments, I called the tech back and he admitted it is always this way with Thermador. Unbelievable!

[~dana]

Thanks for sharing Shirley. Well I suppose we are all stuck with our Thermadors but hopefully someone who is thinking of buying one will read this and think twice about their crazy-long repair times, extremely high lemon rate and constantly backordered parts

[SvcMgr]

I worked for Thermador (B/S/H/ Home Appliances Corp) as a Regional Service Manager for years and I can tell you that the Electronic Control Boards on the current Pro-Range models have been a continuing source of oven failure since their introduction, just a few years ago. Most frequently, they fail if there is a simple power outage (not lightning damage), but simply switching off the circuit breaker or if the local power on your street is turned off and switched back on by your municipal power company.

Please document your experience on the GardenWeb Site, Appliance Section. I am sure others will be interested in your experience. Service availability was also a problem when I worked for Thermador and it appears nothing has changed since my departure. Some of my contacts have advised me it is now taking up to 1 1/2 months to obtain a scheduled service call by Thermador's own factory service division, B/S/H/ Manufacturers Domestic Appliance Service, headquartered in Huntington Beach, CA. With your local service office in Avenel, NJ.

[DHL]

I am still having problems with the oven coming to temperature... The small oven does not like going past 350 (yes even with it cranked up for hours) and the large oven does come up to temperature after 2 hours.

[~dana]

wow DHL that is crazy. Mine are working fin. Small oven heats up fully in about 20 minutes and the full one in about 40 minutes on higher temps. Yours definitely sounds very broken. Did you try any of the suggestions from SvcMgr?

[SvcMgr]

DHL:

Your Pro-Range is not functioning properly, as you have described, as it is unable to maintain the selected temperature. If you have the current Thermador PGR series (all gas Pro-Range), and it is not holding an accurate temperature, first check the simple things...These units are configured by the factory for L.P. or Natural Gas. The model number denotes which type of gas it is configured for.

First, be sure your unit is appropriate for your gas supply...You don't want to be operating an L.P. version of this range on a Natural Gas supply. Typically, your surface burners would also be malfunctioning if the gas type were not suited to your range.

Once you verify you have the correct model for your gas type, contact Thermador customer service and let them know of your ongoing oven temperature problem and reschedule your service call.

The smaller oven also has an auxilliary circuit board which sometimes requires replacement, too. However, the oven burners should also be observed for proper operation. All of this should be covered under warranty if your date of occupancy is as stated in your earlier post.

Both small and large oven temperatures are controlled electronically on this range, making oven temperatures very accurate. However, from your description it is possible that all oven burners are not functioning and thus not contributing to producing heat within the ovens.

I don't have an oven cycle/timing chart for the Broil and Bake burners on the gas unit, but I do know that on the similar electric oven models the Broil Element is used during standard Bake Mode pre-heat. After preheat is complete, the broil element is energized for only 8 seconds per minute while the range maintains oven temperature and the lower bake element is energized for the full 60 seconds per minute while the range maintains oven temperature.

Although your range is all gas, the oven burners probably cycle in a similar fashion to the heating elements in the all electric model. If this is the case, and one or more of the oven burners is not contributing to maintaining oven temperature (after pre-heat has completed), it is understood why you are unable to operate the oven at the selected, stable temperature.

Again, contact Thermador for a satisfactory resolution. But, keeping Dana's Thermador service experience in mind, this could take some time until the job is complete and your ovens are fully functional.

Think positively and don't give up. The range will work, once you overcome the Thermador service department obstacle course! And don't be afraid of contacting your dealer or builder about this problem, as they can play an active role in supporting you through their Thermador Factory Sales Representative, too!

Start by calling Thermador: 1-800-735-4328

Best wishes!

[DHL]

I finally got around to scheduling another appointment. They will be checking it out tomorrow.

[DHL]

Oh my god! I think they fixed it! 2 computers later... I called in a different appliance repair company and these guys came in (with the computer) and went right to work.

[Carl T]

The authorized Thermador repair person just left my house after the second major problem with my 36" dual fuel range with grill (Model PD364GL).
Some background: Like many of you, I did a major remodel of my home (completed two and a half years ago) and, after doing due diligence, I settled on the Thermador because I liked the design and the features and the fact that it got pretty good consumer ratings.
Upon using the oven for the very first time I discovered that if I used the oven and grill at the same time the air from the oven fan would blow on the grill ignitor, causing the grill to continuously ignite. I assumed that it was a design flaw and when I called Thermador their representative confirmed my suspicions - with no offer of a solution.
One year and one month after installing the stove (or, more precisely, one month after the warranty expired) I had a power outage in my neighborhood. When power was restored the master circuit board on my range blew out. One service call (and $400) later I was back in business. Kind of.
After the repair was completed I noticed that the temperature gauge would automatically go to the designated temperature as opposed to the actual temperature in the oven itself. When I asked the service technician about this he told me that this was a new feature. I spoke to the Thermador service representative on the phone and he told me the same thing. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I KNOW what temperature I set the oven to, I need to know what the actual temperature is.
My current situation is that I made the fatal mistake of using the self-cleaning feature for the first time six months ago. Right after using the self cleaning oven I noticed that the oven was not heating up to its designated temperature and that the problem was getting worse. Finally the oven quit heating at all.
Diagnosis: the baking and the broiler elements are both burned out. I have since been told by a good friend and by the service representative that one should never use the self cleaning feature. Live and learn.
The bottom line is that I would never ever buy a Thermador product again and I would strongly caution anyone against doing the same. The product design, manufacture and customer support are all very sub-standard. This is especially galling in light of how much the Thermador products cost.

[SvcMgr]

Carl T:

According to your experience, and since my departure as a Regional Service Manager for Thermador, many of the policies and procedures have changed for the worse, probably due to the many cost cutting measures being taken by Thermador's parent company, German based, B/S/H/ (Bosch-Siemens) Home Appliances Corporation. It seems they are now managing Thermador much like German based Daimler-Mercedes-Benz, who recently destroyed Chrysler's U.S. based automobile business and then was forced to sell Chrysler back to an investment group, due to their mis-management. I fear B/S/H/ has done the same to Thermador, once a fine American manufacturer, now left with a tarnished reputation, due to the business practices of this German based appliance giant.

During recent service cutbacks at Thermador, some service positions that were helpful to consumers were eliminated. For instance, as a Regional Service Manager, one of my jobs was to work with dealers and consumers like you and make concessions and arrangement for repair of faulty products where needed, especially if the problem was a repeat, such as the Pro-Range, Main Control Circuit Boards, which had a reputation for failing when disconnected from the electrical power supply.

Normally, within the first year of warranty, all repairs are covered at no charge to the customer. But, as you discovered, much to your disappointment, you were responsible for the cost of the repair after you were just 1 month out of warranty, as no one at Thermador customer service was willing to work with you regarding this known main control circuit board problem, along with no resolution for the grill igniter which continually activates due to air movement produced while the oven is operating. And the accuracy and function of that oven temperature dial on the control panel has always been an annoyance to most customers and technicians. Additionally, you should be able to use the self-clean feature on this oven...No Excuses!

I can only say that I am sorry to learn of your experience. The future does not look promising for Thermador if they continue to follow on this path of minimal customer service. Be sure to let your dealer or builder know of your experience and dissatisfaction with your Thermador Pro-Range.

In addition to a reduction in service levels, Thermador (B/S/H/ Home Appliances Corp.) has apparently started to close down their Regional Sales Showrooms, with the Boston/New England showroom and sales office being the first to close on September 1, 2007, according to ApplianceAdvisor.com. See the attached link.

http://www.applianceadvisor.com/FrameMain.htm

[Frank Mitchell]

Did you try to get any help from the store PC Richard is a good company and most of the time you will get results

[PC Richard Employee]

If you go to the store, ask for the store manager to have the DM call you you will likely get results.
FYI all comments you type on the PC Richard website http://www.pcrichard.com/custserv/contactus.jsp go to Gary and Greg Richard's Blackberry.

[SvcMgr]

PC Richard Employee:

The Thermador Use & Care manual requests that the consumer contact the Thermador customer service department's toll-free phone number for help with any questions or problems regarding the use or servicing of their products.

Although you have suggested the customer should have contacted PC Richards for assistance, the real problem is that, without dealer intervention, Thermador's own customer service department would not deliver repair times at acceptable levels for this high-end appliance customer. Instead, she was placed on Thermador's (B/S/H/ Home Appliances Corp) Customer Service Obstacle Course of being placed on hold and repeating her problem, and associated chain of events, over and over to an assortment of Thermador customer service representatives, etc. This is very frustrating to the customer and totally unnecessary, as all customer complaints are documented by model and serial number, along with current status for future reference.

However, it is encouraging to hear that PC Richards is requesting customers to contact the store's customer service department regarding situations such as Dana's. And considering the ongoing cost cutting and service cutbacks at Thermador (B/S/H/ Home Appliances Corp), PC Richards will have a monumental task ahead.

Dana: Could you please comment on your PC Richards customer service experience if you did, indeed, contact the PC Richards store regarding this situation?

[Peter in McLean]

I have a Thermador Model SCD302TP, double wall oven, with convection. Although it is five years old, I doubt it has been used more the 100 hours. Last year we started getting an error code "FR" when the temperature went at or above 350 degrees in the bottom oven. Now it is happening on both ovens.

The two repair companies we contacted -- and paid to make three house calls -- said it is the Master board, and we need new ovens. Can this be true? Any guidance?

I have submitted a file to Thermador, but have not heard back after two weeks of waiting. On the phone now. Thanks!

[dana]

I did not contact PC Richards as my oven did not work within a couple of days of being installed and the saleperson was very clear that the item was covered under manufacturer's warranty so I should contact them for the first year.

I feel for you Peter--hope your issue gets fixed soon...but knowing Thermador, you have a real headache on your hands